Wednesday, October 22, 2008

Chuck Smith's UK CC's Churches and Hope 08 involved in Ecumenical and Interfaith Initiatives


Inspite of Chuck Smith's Efforts in instructing CC's not to be involved in anything that is ecumenical and purpose driven, there are CC Churches here in the (UK) that have decided to go against Chuck Smith's advice.

As you will see from the video this has been the case.

1Cr 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

Hope 2008 is in bed with Rome, they have no problems eating with the head's of the Catholic church, who would promote such practices as Idolatry.

Archbishop of Canterbury with Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor 0n the right.

The Roman Catholic church has no problems supporting Hope 08 making Evangelicals more Catholic than they themselves realise. There is a book by Dwight Longenecker called "Path to Rome," Modern Day conversions into Catholicism, about how we are moving into a "new reformation," that the era of reform is over and how the Alpha Course is a tool to help the catholic church evangelize unbelievers. It seems that Evangelical Protestants in the UK are more enthusiastic about the catholic church than a lot of Roman Catholics are.

Here are a few Quotes, "This Collection of 'Conversion' stories relates to how former Baptists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army Officers, Plymoth Brethren, New Age Believers and Evangelical Anglicans all made their way along the path to rome" these quotes are from a collection of stories from people who have recently converted to Catholosism, "Ann Widdecombe former C of E "Oddly The Concept of Papal Infallibility gave me no trouble at all. Jesus had clearly said to Peter, 'Whotesoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church........ And in finding the Catholic Church I have found Peter. I have always had Christ but now I have peter as well....... No one but the pope claims to be the successor to Peter and non but the Catholic Church can trace its Line and its teachings without fail right back to the first apostles.... The Catholic Church alone provides the interpretative authority in its doctrine of papal infallibility...... Truth is absolute by its very nature and Christianity is a vastly more excting religion than most find comftable to contenplate but if truth is absolute it cannotbe diluted......"

Dwight Longenecker former Evangelical "But the Pope calls all Christians to profound conversation of heart in order for ecumenism to take place. In his encyclical Ut Unim Sint, he writes, Their can be no ecumenism worthy of the name without a change of heart personally as well as communally. Each one has to change his way of looking at things.' He calls Catholics Orthodox and Protestance to move forward into a new re-formation of the church, ' The Second Vatican Council, connecting renewal, conversion and reform states that Christ summons the whole church... to a continual reformation.' ...... the Pope calls the whole church to join in a quest for a "new kind of Christianity" in which all Christians can once more unite"

"Can a New ecumenism rise from these ashes for the third millennium ? In a recent article (catholic herald, 19 March 1999) Ian Ker looks to a new dynamic whick is emerging between Evangelicals and Catholics, and Graham Leonard has also noticed a radical shift in Christianity whick presages what many be a new character in the twenty-first century church, Fr Leonnard has spoken of this re-alignment as ... between those on the one hand who believe that the Christian Gospel is revealed by God; is to be heard and recieved, and that its purpose is to enable men and women to obey God in love and through them for creation itself to be redeemed. On the other hand are those who believe that it can and should be modified and adapted to the cultural and interllectual attitudes and demands of successive generations and indeed originates in them."

Now this one is startling.

"While Evangelicalism and Catholisism have been traditional enemies, their are many signs on both sides of the atlantic that a significant shift is happening in both communities, Old boundaries are dissolving, old prejudices dying out and old doctrinal disputes seem increacingly irrelivent."

"While Scott Hahn, Patrick Madrid, and others work as converts to Catholosism, the Catholic Church is learning from Evangelicals in other ways. In the United State, England and Latin America Catholics are learning to do primery evangelism using an adapted form of the highly successful, Evangelical Anglican "alpha course".

At the Same time, Evangelical leaders are less shy about using 'Catholic' techniques of prayer and worship. In America, Churches where candles and set litergies would - even ten years be unheard of, are clebrating lent and Advent with crosses, candles, ashes and litergies borrowed from the Catholics and Anglicans. As one American Baptist minister observed when told that the ashes he wanted to use for Ash Wednesday were derived from burning the Palm Sunday palms, 'Whoa! All this Catholic stuff seems to be connected!"

"For Many reasons, the old ethnic and denominational religous barriers will be replaced by a new kind of Christianity. This new expression of the faith will not recognize the traditional national, linguistic and denominational borders."

As Vatican II really gets into the bloodstream of the Church, the old doctrinal and liturgical missunderstandings will also dissapear at a grass roots level. Catholics will become more evangelical and evangelicals will become more Catholic. Lynn Jolly points out in her essay that Tillich referred to the 'era' of reform, rather then the churches of the reformation, and as one Catholic bishop has remarked, 'The era of reform is over.'

Lets look at the evidence,

Please click on the Images to enlarge.

If you click on the image you will see there is clear involvement with the Catholic Church.

[1] Quote ", the web portal of The Universe Catholic weekly, the largest-selling Catholic newspaper in the UK and Ireland. Founded in 1860, The Universe, and its sister title The Catholic Times, have faithfully reported Catholic news and concerns for a century-and-a-half, reflecting the unique and influential development of the Catholic faith across the UK and Ireland."

The World Prayer Centre is ecumenical, click on the Image below for more information as they report about having an ecumenical service.

[2] Highlighted in Red, CCR stands for Catholic Charismatic Renewal, this is this is the official Web Site of the National Service Committee for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in England. This is part of the Roman Catholic Church in the screenshot it shows the connection Hope '08 has with the RCC as being part of a ecumenical gathering.

[3] This screen shot shows how Wirral Youth For Christ (who are part of Hope '08) are ecumenical.

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[4] Image 1 Quote: The Highlighted Text reads, Hope'08 is aiming to unite whole church Hope 2008 is a nationwide Christian initiative aiming to unite the whole church in prayer, community action and evangelism. The vision for Hope 2008 is; “To unite the whole church, for the whole nation, for a whole year... to do more, do it together and do it in word and deed.”

Image 2 Quote: Consequently, Hope08’s Board of Reference reads like an ecumenical Who’s Who and includes Dr Rowan Williams, Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor and Rev David Coffey, alongside MPs Stephen Timms, Caroline Spelman and Steve Webb, representing the three main political parties.

[5] Somerset Churches Together have a document called Hope 08 Launch Event for Young People.

Please Click on the Image to download the PDF Document

[6] In this Hope '08 document it states about its interfaith Relations on the beginning of page 5, "Launch of the Somerset Faith Forum" The Somerset Faith Forum has been supported by Somerset Churches Together, which was the lead organisation for the successful application to the Faith Communities Capacity Building Fund, which has funded the setting up the Forum.

The Forum has been set up to:

· Promote harmonious relations between people of different faiths in the local authority area of Somerset.

· Improve the quality of life for local people by working together on agreed projects, demonstrating partnership between different faiths.

· Encourage dialogue and provide an opportunity for faith organisations to network with each other and relevant bodies

· Hold meetings, events, lectures, conferences and social gatherings to provide an opportunity for faith organisations to create a harmonious environment for all faiths.

There were presentations from members of the Bahai, Christian, Hindu, Jewish and Quaker communities in Somerset. The speakers stressed the importance of faith, of treating everyone equally and the need to recognise diversity while working together.

On page 7 Titled Ecumenical Prayer Vigil at Pill, The Ecumenical Prayer Vigil for 2007 was held at Christ Church, Pill from 10.00 am to 10.00 pm. It was organised by an ecumenical team from the Methodists, the Baptists
and the Anglicans.

Each church was asked to tell its congregation about the vigil, and was sent posters to promote the event. Posters were put in local shops and the Resource centre. Sandwich Boards were put in the precinct and outside the Community Centre which held the McMillan Big Coffee break on the same day. The church was open from 10.00 am onwards.

The rota included 24 volunteers from the covenant churches with additional help from the Salvation Army and Catholic Churches in Pill. Twenty five people filled the rota, and about another thirty visitors came in over the course of the day to pray. Feedback from those attending was uniformly good.

On page 8 it states: HOPE 08 is intended to provide churches of all shapes and sizes throughout the UK with a fresh opportunity to work together across their communities over a twelve month period. It is as relevant for urban churches as it is for rural ones, regardless of tradition. It is very relevant to Churches Together groups which might gain new energy through the involvement of young people and the independent churches in many of the activities which the HOPE 08 programme suggests.

After Soul in the City in London in 2004, three agencies together with a wide range of denominations, networks and charities concluded that focused mission is possible if we all work across the whole nation. Churches of all kinds can work in partnership with other churches, with Christian agencies, the local authorities and the police to make a real impact on their communities.


[6a] What Happened in 2004 ???, In 2004 the Catholic Agency to Support Evangelisation (CASE), in a response to Pope John Paul II's Message of World Youth Day 2004, organised an event called, "Soul in the City," in London. This was an ecumenical event and the Christian charity Soul Survivor was employed to co-ordinate it.

Part of the events organised during "Soul in the City" was the celebration of a daily morning mass. This blatant promotion of the Roman Catholic Mass shows the obvious ecumenical stance
of Soul Survivor in that they have no problems with the Catholic dogma of the Mass.

[6b] (Soul in the City's website now directly links with the Hope '08 website so that "Soul in the City" is now part of the Hope '08 initiative)

Back to the document, Somerset Churches Together’s Annual Gathering will also focus on Hope 2008. Ian Chisnall, Hope 08 National Coordinator, will speak and lead discussion at Locking Castle Church in WestonsuperMare on 20 October from 10.00 am.

On page 9 it states: The ecumenical movement, the movement of the Spirit that draws Christians together in unity, is worldwide, not just something which happens in the British Isles or Somerset. It faces many challenges and is entering a new stage on its journey. These facts were clearly brought home to me when, with ecumenical officers and others, I stayed for a few days in September at the Ecumenical Institute at Bossey and visited the offices of the World Council of Churches (WCC) in Geneva.

The WCC is a Council of Churches which is now more than fifty years old. There are 347 member churches, representing roughly one quarter of the world’s Christians. It has a special relationship with the Roman Catholic Church which is not a member but has an important associated role.

The WCC is facing many challenges including severe financial constraints. Most of the churches to which the 500 million or so Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians in the world belong remain outside the WCC and the Roman Catholic Church is not a formal member, although it supports the WCC in many ways.

On Page 15 it states ‘Unity is not about doing extra ecumenical things, things that absorb precious time and energy, but about doing the things we should be doing anyway ecumenically: worshipping, witnessing, serving and evangelizing as one and so releasing energy rather than absorbing it.’ (Paul Avis, ‘Rethinking Ecumenical Theology’ in Paths to Unity: Explorations in Ecumenical Method, Church House Publishing, 2004, page 102)

This is very Deceptive and only leads people into Roman Catholicism.

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[7] Hope '08 made a UK government reference to being part of a "Interfaith Strategy" this states as I have highlighted, Interfaith Strategy 5. Ms Celia Barlow (Hove) (Lab): What progress has been made in developing an interfaith strategy. Ms Barlow: Is my hon. Friend aware of the work of Hope 2008, an organisation that supports the voluntary work of the Churches in Britain? Every year, churches, mosques, synagogues and temples perform a very valued service in the community......... Mr. Dhanda: Hope 2008 does excellent work, which underpins and is very much in tune with our work on an interfaith the sort of collaborative action supported by Hope 2008. As I said, we will unveil our interfaith strategy later this month.......and it is one that is made to me regularly by our Faith Communities Consultative Council. It has been very supportive of the work on the interfaith framework, and its ideas are being put into practice in the framework, as he will see in a few weeks.......Gentleman will see that, like a stick of rock, it has their work, commitment and values running through it.

Here is a copy of that Government Document, click on the image to enlarge.

Click on the title to download the document.

A guide to Governance of faith based organisations


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