Friday, February 20, 2009

Steve Clifford, The Evangelical Alliance and Hope 08 a further liberal move, "ever widening the narrow way"


Steve Clifford, The Evangelical Alliance
and Hope 08 a further liberal move,
"ever widening the narrow way"

Who is Steve Clifford ?

[1] Steve was Born in Bradford in 1954. He and his brother lost their father who was tragically killed by a drunk driver, when they were very young. By the age of 17 Steve made a proclamation of faith, he travelled to Denmark, where he spent a year, amongst other things, running a café ministry in Copenhagen on one of the first Youth With A Mission (YWAM) projects, [2] YWAM is now ecumencial.

He returned to London to study for a degree in theology at London Bible School (now London School of Theology) that has an [3] interfaith basis. There he met his wife, Ann. After a brief period as a salesman and social worker, Steve embarked on teacher training in 1978, at Carnegie School of Physical Education. He taught for five years, running a unit for pupils withdrawn from mainstream studies in Longford School in Hounslow. Later he became Head of General Education at The Feltham School, while contributing to his local church as much as possible. In 1985 he decided to leave this promising career in education to pursue his passion for the church and become a Christian worker.

Since then, Steve has worked in a variety of church roles, including many, but not exclusively, with the [4] heretical Gerald Coates of Pioneer and his network of churches. Currently he is a member of the leadership team at his local church in West London.

As well as preaching and doing hands-on evangelism, youth work, schools work and church planting, Steve created the TIE Team discipleship course (later to become DNA), which has trained several thousand workers. He also gives advice, training and support to numerous churches around the country.

[5] Mike Pilavachi of Soul Survivor, also a member of the Evangelical Alliance Council, said, "Steve is a man of total integrity who empowers others and has displayed vision and courage in all that we have worked on together, including Soul in the City, Soul Survivor and Hope08. He is much much more than a team player or a facilitator. He is, in my opinion, a great leader."

Here Mike Pilavachi speaks about a man who has led many astray. Being instrumental in the promotion of complete compromise with the Roman Catholic Church in his position as Chair of Soul Survivor.

Their are problems with Mike Pilavachi a prime example of this was from the charismania team, they research that he had made candid remarks in March 2007, Pilavachi admitted fornication and drunkenness by members of his church in a interview broadcast on St. Paul Theological Centre's.

Godpod21.mp3

He says (at 29.20 mins into the mp3):

"I just discovered recently MySpace, because they're all [his congregation] into MySpace so I thought I better have a look.
So I started looking and looked at what people wrote. And they would write on one person's MySpace "oh wasn't church wonderful, I really met the Lord, sensed the Spirit of God on me." Then I'd click to others and on the same day they'd write to someone else's MySpace, "oh Friday night, great night, got
off with this girl, got absolutely plastered (drunk that is)."

Not only does Steve Clifford's endorsement of a man lacking inintegrity, but it puts Steve Clifford in a very bad light. It is clear from the audio tape that Mike Pilavachi does not seem to have problems with the bahaviour of his fellow members.

The Evangelical Alliance, which Steve Clifford is the new leader of, is clearly ecumenical. According to the Church of England [6] they stated that there was a Strong Ecumenical presence set for Lambeth Conference 2008, Among other ecumenical participants at the conference are: Archbishop Hovnan Derderian, Armenian Church; The Revd Dr Canon Joel Edwards, Evangelical Alliance, UK; The Revd Prof Robert Gribben, World Methodist Council; Metropolitan Kallistos of Diolkeia, Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople; Cardinal Walter Kasper, President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity; The Revd Samuel Kobia, General Secretary of the World Council of Churches; The Revd Dr Ishmael Noko, General Secretary of the Lutheran World Federation; Patriarch Theophilus III, Patriarchate of Jerusalem; The Very Revd Prof Iain Torrance, World Alliance of Reformed Churches; The Revd Dr Geoff Tunnicliffe, Director of the World Evangelical Alliance. A full list of ecumenical participants will be available at the conference.

[7] There is very little doubt in my mind that the Evangelical Alliance UK has been a key partner of Hope '08. Hope '08, was co-founded by Steve Clifford from the Church of England . [8] Mr Clifford comes from Bradford, where his father was a Church of England priest. He trained as a teacher before going into full-time church work in 1985.. [9] Steve Clifford of (Pioneer Network) and a small leadership team to turn the vision behind Hope 08 into a reality.

[10]"We are excited about Hope08 and the ways in which local churches can get more involved in their communities throughout the year. Whether in schools, youth clubs or
community centres up and down the country this initiative will provide lots of practical ways to live out and demonstrate the gospels injunction to be ‘‘salt and light’’, bringing hope, social and spiritual transformation to local people and communities.
"

Today's mainline protestants concept of "Salt and Light" is not biblical. The Biblical teaching of "Salt and Light" is that "Salt" purifies and "Light" exposes the darkness revealing the truth. They promote an idea of "making the world a better place" where Christians of every description come together and unite around a common purpose regardless of Doctrine and Belief. The key phrase is that we "Disagree Agreeably."

Real salt stings and true light hurts the eyes of those that have been in darkness. This is contrary to the Seeker Sensitive concept of “disagree agreeably.” By "Disagreeing Agreeably" they are actually removing God's standard of right and wrong, and push the boundary that is based God's absolute authority, thus undermining what God has said. This was satan's tactic in the garden: Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?." Satan wasl “disagreeing agreeably” with God. There are clear fundamental boundries that we cannot cross, and, by overlooking them we can justify relations with the Roman Catholic Church, Islam, Mormonism etc.

Christ states in His word that the Gate is Strait and the road is narrow: Matthew 7:13 - 14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

When examine what Steve Clifford, Steve Chalke, Andy Hawthorne and many others at the forefront of the new evangelism are teaching, we find a lack of understanding of the Gospel and clearly unscriptual interpretations. By overemphasising God's love and neglecting to teach that God also hates and is angry with sinners, these people are not telling you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, they are feeding you lies and actually baring false witness (which God hates). Some of the statements below came from sermon audio's commentry on the subject.[13]

The Bible teaches that we should object to anything that is not scriptual on matters of essential teaching. God does not tolerate this false gospel that they are spreading around. They speak of God's love, but they don't talk about God's hatred, this is what God's concept of Salt and Light was about. If you shine a light to see a open wound this simbolises God's light exposing our sins. Salt is symbolic for pain, for God to put his salt on our sins is for him to hurt us, we would feel guity and under conviction. Salt stings, God would brake you into a million pieces. Salt also heals; God has to brake us in order for us to heal. Salt is a preservative, it can preserve our souls, for Psalm 5:5 tells us that God hates all workers of iniquity. So when they talk about God loving all sinners, how can we say that God loves everyone when the Bible says no such thing? In fact God despises anyone that does not have the same righteousness that He has, for God to love unbelieving and unrigtheous sinners would be like if you are married do you tell your wife that you love her and yet you love every other woman in the World in the same way that you love your own wife?

Groups like The Evangelical Alliance would have you believe that they are giving you God's Salvation, however, God's Salvation is NOT yours to hand out to anyone. They should preach that people need to flee the Wrath to come. God's Wrath and not His love is upon all mankind. Read John 14:21 where Jesus says that those who obey HIM will be loved by the Father etc, etc. For if you preach that God loves everyone what would motivate them to want to repent????

Does God offer hope to the unrepentant sinner?

Does God wish evil upon all men? no, men are evil and wicked all the time, this is why the Bible says God is angry with the wicked every day, Psalm 7:11. Thus to say that God loves every unbelieving, unrepentant sinner is to say that God has double standards. John 3:16 does not refer to Love that is Fellios or Er'ros, it was agape. God hated man's fallen state so that Father's unconditionall love brought forth (begat) the Word, His only Son as a propitiation. God surrendered himself and became human s not because He saw anything worthwhile or loveable about anyone. This, rather, reveals something deeper about God's love, thatt God is able to manifest His love to an undeserving world by sending Jesus Christ into this world.

This does show at the same time God is Love. Because he loves what is Holy and hates what is unholy, He hates that which is ungodly, and people are ungodly.He hates when His people make alliances with the world (such as the government), Idolaters (such as the Vatican), other false gods (such as in Islam etc). This is exactly why God cannot stand. When we have this attitude of “disagree agreeably” He hates it, because it is worldly wisdom and is carnal. We must look to the scriptures to find out what Godly wisdom is, what Holiness is, what true seperation is and what purity is. When we have done this we can then apply it to our very life.

If God loved unrepentant sinners in the way that many teach today, God would be unjust and perverse. God sees liars just as bad as murders. Consider this, if a man was to come into your house and butchered and raped your wife and your children killing them in front of you and the police comes and takes him. When the case goes to court stands before the Judge and says,"I'm sorry, I'm, forgive me I made a mistake." The Judge then turns and says to him, I forgive you and you can go scott free, is this is your view of God?

Now ask yourself this question is that Judge a just judge ?

You would answer no, you would accuse that judge of being more wicked then the man who murdered and raped your wife and Butchered your children in front of you. Do you think God would let us off the hook that easy ? No God does not let sinners off the hook, Psalm 5:5 says that God hates “all workers of iniquity.” Proverbs 6:18-19 says that God hates “a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren.”

God did not demonstrate his love because he felt sorry for the world, God demonstrated his love by sending his Son and the only thing that could save me was not me saying "sorry to God" but his Blood. His blood was the price He paid for all our sins, forgiveness happened after atonement. The blood makes men clean. Hebrews 10:26-31 does not hold out hope to people who continue in sin, Hebrews 10:26-31 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

People may accuse me of being a legalist, I hold no such position. Faith in Christ, not the Law, saves. Romans 8 says that the law is spirit, Acts 15 Jesus is the law living and being written in our hearts, so much so that it convicts the soul unto holiness, and that all men should fear God. Repentence should be a daily occurence. It is not by works that we enter into heaven, it is byGods grace. When God said "God Loved the world", this means he loved what he created.

God's mercy is demonstrated underthe condition that we Believe Him, he shows us mercy leading us to obedience, this is why obedience is better than sacrifice. 1 Samuel - Chapter 15:22

By this God manifested his love, that while we were sinners, Christ died for us. God did not see anything in sinners, it was inspite of it that He sent the Son. He chooses to open our eyes, this is why it is called mercy and compassion because none of it is deserved by any of us.

How do we know we are in Christ and we are born again ?

The spirit of God, in repentant believing man, testifies to the world. Unbelievers will see a difference in us. We should not be identical with the world, we should not smell, dress and talk like the world, and above all we should goto the scriptures daily and test if we be in the faith.

Salvation will bring a notable change in our lives that comes from God's Spirit. This does not come via any formula, but change should happen. The Holy Spirit transforms the soul. Unless this has happened salvation cannot be counted upon. When change is of God it will last your whole life, regeneration does not happen if a person is willing and goes back into sin, change has to be God's doing. We dont need to thus work on our part, God acts when we give up the most, this is why we need to constantly confess our sins to God daily and at that point by faith you are placing your trust in God to change you. God will not allow a person to remain in their sins, if they are a repentant believer. This is how we know that God loves you, because if God loves you he will punish you, the Bible calls this chastisement, this is how we know God loves those who are holy because they will gladly recieve it.

When we have Godly fear through the Holy Spirit, He empowers a person to make those changes, this can only happen if we desire purity. We must then ask the question, do we really want God? Can we honestly say we desire Him if we continue in sin?

Now ask you self this question where does this teaching "Hate the sin and not the sinner." come from ?

This is a teaching that came from Hindu Guru Mahatma Gandhi [11] MAN and his deed are two distinct things. Whereas a good deed should call forth approbation and a wicked deed disapprobation, the doer of the deed, whether good or wicked, always deserves respect or pity as the case may be. "Hate the sin and not the sinner" is a precept which, though easy enough to understand, is rarely practised, and that is why the poison of hatred spreads in the world.-My Experiments With Truth : P. 337.

We can only win over the opponent by love, never by hate. Hate is the subtlest form of violence. We cannot be really non-violent and yet have hate in us.

-Harijan : Aug. 17, 1934.

We really must examine what we are being taught in the churches,

"MAN and his deed are two distinct things. Whereas a good deed should call forth approbation and a wicked deed disapprobation, the doer of the deed, whether good or wicked, always deserves respect or pity as the case may be."

When you line the first statement with the Bible we find this is false, Romans - Chapter 3:10 - 18 Their is none good, Jesus said in Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is], God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." this is repeated in Mar 10:18 and Luk 18:19, also in Jeremiah - Chapter 17:9 "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

It is impossible for any one to do good when we are all wicked sinners and we will stand before a holy God as a wicked person. The human heart testifies to this. The concept of "Hate the sin and not the sinner" is clearly false, it was Gandhi who taught this heresy, Gandhi coined the term Harijan, this means Children of God and infered term that means we are all Gods children. This is again false, what makes a person a Child of God ?

The Bible is clear that all humans are God’s creation (Colossians 1:16), but the Bible only talks about only those who are born again being exclusively Children of God (John 1:12; John 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10), in order to be a Child of God we must be saved.

Here Gandhi falsely teaches:

[12] "We can only win over the opponent by love, never by hate. Hate is the subtlest form of violence. We cannot be really non-violent and yet have hate in us."

Again the wisdom of this man is folly, it is foolish to believe that in order to hate sin and all that is evil is a form that will bring you to act violently against another, when God punished men of rebellion yes to people it was a violent thing to do, but this does not make God evil.

The problem is that Hindu Mahatma Gandhi's quote is so often incorrectly attributed to Jesus Christ or, at least, to be of Christian origins.

So a modern "christian" way of interpreting these phrases is: "God loves the sinner and hates the sin."

So, let us see what other important men of God in history had to say about this.

BROADMAN BIBLE COMMENTARY: "Yahweh takes no pleasure in wickedness and does not dwell with evil (or evil men). Insolent, boasting people have no position at all in the presence of Yahweh, who hates all 'doers of sin.' Indeed, Yahweh will annihilate those who speak deception: He detests the man of bloody deeds and deceits."

F. DELITZSCH : "Of such (sinners - the foolish, and more especially the foolish boasters:)... such men Jehovah hates: for if He did not hate evil, His love would not be a holy love," ... "And His soul hates the evildoer and him that delights in the violence of the strong against the weak. And the more intense this hatred, the more fearful will be the judgments in which it bursts forth." (Psalms, Vol.5, pp.122,189)

JONATHAN EDWARDS: "The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much in the same way one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect, over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: His wrath towards you burns like fire: He looks upon you as worthy of nothing else but to be cast into the fire: He is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in His sight: you are ten thousand times more abominable in His sight than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours." (Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God, July 8, 1741)

CHARLES G. FINNEY: "The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event - the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases God that a rational moral agent under His government should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and only object of His anger." (The Guilt of Sin, pp.84-85)

THE INTERNATIONAL CRITICAL COMMENTARY: "But the wicked His soul doth hate ... Their treacherous preparations...are all observed by Yahweh, and He hates them from His very soul. The soul is the seat of the passion of anger and hatred, for God as well as for man...therefore, Yahweh is trying the righteous man, and hating His deadly enemies..."

THE INTERPRETER'S BIBLE: "In vs. 5 the verb 'trieth' has its object both the righteous and the wicked, and means nomore that the Lord watchfully observes them both and estimates them for what they are, hating the latter and ultimately pouring His destruction upon them."

LAYMAN'S BIBLE COMMENTARY: "God's Hatred of Evildoers (Psalm 5:4-5)... God is not said to love the sinner and hate his sin; He is said to hate both the sinner and his sin. This sounds harsh to modern Christian ears, but thereis truth here we dare not overlook."

MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY: "He is a holy God, and therefore hates them (the sinner), and cannot endure to look upon them; the wicked, and him that loveth violence, His soul hateth... Their pros-perity is far from being an evidence of God's love...their abuse of it does certainly make them objects of His hatred. He hates nothing that He has made, yet hates those who have ill-made themselves."

J. VERNON MCGEE: " If you think God is just lovey-dovey, you had better read this (Ps.11:5) and some of the other Psalms again. God hates the wicked who hold onto their wickedness... I do not think God loves the devil, I think He hates him, and He hates those who have no intention of turning to God. Frankly, I do not like this distinction that I hear today, that 'God loves the sinner, but hates the sin.' God has loved you so much that He gave His Son to die for you, but if you persist in your sin, and continue in that sin, you are the enemy of God. And God is your enemy." (Psalms, Vol.1, p.72)

CHARLES H. SPURGEON: "Verse 5 - Note the singular opposition of the two sentences. God hates the wicked, therefore in contrast He loves the righteous..." (The Treasury of David, Vol.2, pp.57-58)

AUGUSTUS HOPKINS STRONG : "There is no abstract sin that can be hated apart from the person in whom that sin is represented and embodies. It is the sinner who is punished, not the sin." (Systematic Theology, p.290f)

JOHN WESLEY (1703-1791, founder of Methodism): "But as for the wicked, God hates them, and will feverishly punish them." (Explanatory Notes Upon the Old Testament, Vol.2, p.1639)

The idea that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner" is a lie. Psalm 7:11 The Bible says that God is angry with the wicked daily and He will eternally judge both the living and the dead according to their deeds done in this life.

He does not demonstrate His love by some arbitrary feelings, lust, or emotions as liars might say, "Ohhh, God loves you unconditionally!" Men like Paul Washer mocks those fools when he theatrically declares, "Jesus loves you!" whereby the sinner, that unrepentant man, responds with glee, "What? Jesus loves me? Really? That's wonderful, I love me too!"

God demonstrated His love for the world, when He sent His one and only son Jesus, the Christ, to die upon a cross. God the Father did this because of His eternal love that He has shared for His Son and the likeness and image of His son --which He created men in (Genesis 1:26; Romans 8:29; Colossians 3:10). That is, God loves His Son and He therefore loves us for the sake of His Son because we are created in His image -- even though this image is marred and obscured in our fallen sin nature.

Notice also that anytime God talks about His love demonstrated towards us, while we were yet sinners, He talks about His Son Jesus Christ dying on the cross and resurrecting from the dead to take away the sins of the world. A holy God cannot love anything or anyone with sin. If anyone refuses to repent and be saved from their sins and thereby dies in sin then they will be separated from God's mercy; which is hell. As it is written, Matthew 7:23, And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." And again, Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." If you have not repented and believed on Him, you are dead in your sins because God has already judged the world in righteousness.

John 3
18. He that believes on him (Jesus) is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Here is a sermon on the issue:

A Burning Heart by Leonard Ravenhill, "Some people say 'God hates your sin but loves you, the sinner', but that's bunkum - God hates you for sinning."

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.
php?lid=4229

Here are a few scriptural references:

Psalm 5:4-6
Leviticus 20:23
Leviticus 26:14-30
Deuteronomy 18:12
Deuteronomy 25:16
Deuteronomy 28:62-63
Deuteronomy 32:16-20
Psalm 2:4-9
Psalm 7:11-13
Psalm 10:3
Psalm 11:5-7
Psalm 50:22
Psalm 78:57-63
Psalm 106:40
Proverbs 3:32-33
Proverbs 6:16-19
Proverbs 16:5
Proverbs 17:5
Proverbs 22:14
Isaiah 63:10
Jeremiah 17:5
Hosea 9:15
Zephaniah 3:15
Malachi 1:3-4
Psalm 139:16-24

Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them. How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand; when I awake, I am still with You. Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God! Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men. For they speak against You wickedly; Your enemies take Your name in vain. Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies. Search me, O God, and know my heart; try me, and know my anxieties; and see if there is any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

The New Testament likewise agrees with the Old Testament for God does not change -- Malachi 3:6, "For I the LORD do not change," and again, Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

Matthew 7:13-23
Matthew 10:28
Romans 9:13
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Galatians 5:19-21
Ephesians 5:3-6
2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
Hebrews 10:30-31
James 2:13
James 4:4
2 Peter 2:4-22
Jude 1:6-7
Acts 13:10

"You who are full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

1 Peter 3:12
"For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Revelation 14:10-11 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.

People say "but He loves everyone enough to administer His grace" no, Grace was not out of love, it was purely because we did not deserve it.

People also say "if we start preaching God hates people then we are no better than the moslems..."

This is clearly wrong, the God of the Quran tells man to Kill in the name of God, were as the God of the Bible teaches us that it is God him self who will do this, what we call the 2nd death, God does not have double standards, how God felt to repent that he even created human beings and wipe the entire human race of the planet this is pure hatred, and it is the same God who said "I change not" the same God that wiped out mankind is the same God who will do it with fire...

The Bible teaches us you shalt not kill, but God wrote the law for man not man for the law, so if he pleased he could do what he likes.

This is how much we should fear God in order that we hate all evil, if you dont hate Islam you can't love God.

Some Christians say "God is at emnity with people, but the gospel (the good news) is that He sent Jesus not to condemn but to save"

It because God already hates sinners and saw already were going to goto the lake of Fire were death and hell are going to go, God (the word) saw the only way a person could be saved was by the propitiation of Blood, that atoned, cleansed my past sins. The effectual forgiveness doctrine is not in the Bible. Actually, the Bible teaches just the opposite. While we were enemies of God (meaning unsaved) we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son. It does not require faith to be reconciled to God as many churches falsely teach. Reconciliation does not mean one is saved as these churches teach. It means the enmity between God and mankind as a result of Adam's transgressions has been reversed. One is saved by faith in the resurrection of Jesus. We are saved by receiving His resurrected life in us, being filled with the Holy Spirit. You must have Christ in you to be saved.

Colossians 1:27, Romans 4:25, Romans 5:10, Romans 10:9-10, John 3:16-18 if you read the context of John it says, He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ephesians 2:4 John 1:12 Romans 3:211 Corinthians 15:1 1 Corinthians 15:13 1 Corinthians 15:20 1 John 5:11 1 Peter 1:3 1 Peter 3:21 Luke 23:42 Revelation 20:15.

These talk about faith and Jesus this is all it is ever about, God could not save me without His son. I must have Faith in Him who delivered me, while I was yet a unrepentant sinner God hated me.

In Romans 4:25 we see the separation between forgiveness of sin and salvation. Jesus was delivered up and crucified for the forgiveness of our sin, and He was raised from the dead to provide the way of salvation. The only sin which cannot be forgiven is the sin of unbelief in Jesus Christ's death and resurrection as our Savior. This has been called by some as the "unpardonable sin."

Their are many christains who believe the love of God excludes the Hatred of God, both God demonstrates his love but hates at the same time this is exactly while God was not in love with the sinner, Christ demonstrated his love, this was not a "feeling of love" getting back to my first point God hating unrepentant sinners and the sin, reference "God loved us first"

We know God’s universal grace because “One has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised. (2 Corinthians 5:14-15)”

When He declares Himself Holy (cf. Leviticus 19:2), God testifies to us that He is sinless, incapable of sin, and hating sin. He will not abide even one whiff of sinfulness in His presence. He calls Himself a “jealous God” in Exodus 20:5, one who forged a perfect Creation and who demands perfection from all His creatures. Jealousy is a relationship word. God isn’t jealous of our behavior; His zeal is for His people, as He jealously demands our absolute attention. He hates everyone who doesn’t put Him first.

God’s curses upon Adam and Eve after just one “little” sin don’t show a Deity who only hated sins. If sin alone was the object of His hatred, why didn’t He destroy only the sins (or the capacity to sin) of our first parents? Why did He establish the death penalty for even one infraction of His Law if His hatred didn’t extend to the sinners? Also, we need to remember what damnation means. What is banished to hell’s eternal torment? Is it sins? No! God hates sinners so much that “for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)”

In Psalm 5:5, David professed to God, “The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers.” Was he making this up? The Lord plainly expressed His hatred of sin through Isaiah: “I hate robbery and wrong. (61:8)” Through Jeremiah He also clearly declared His hatred of those who violated His Law: “My heritage has become to me like a lion in the forest; she has lifted up her voice against me; therefore I hate her. (12:8)”

The divine Law constantly voices God’s absolute hatred of every evil intent, action, or person. Our Holy God will not abide the stench of our sins invading His nostrils. Nor will He tolerate stinking sinners. He compels Himself to root out and destroy sin and to punish those who commit it. Did God punish sin or sinners in the Flood? Genesis 6:12-13 says, “The earth ... was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.” When He said “them,” the Lord meant people, not just people’s sins.

The Holy God’s wrath against sin is absolute. Our God is just; He cannot go back on His Word. In His holiness, He promised punishment — even death — to sinners. However, He is also gracious and merciful. To His wretched, sinful covenant people He said, “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel? (Ezekiel 33:11)” By his nature, the Lord is able to absolutely love yet completely hate sinners.

God reconciled the holy hatred expressed in Psalm 5:5 with the absolute love He shows in John 3:16. At His own appointed time, He focused His judgment upon one Person, His own beloved Son. Jesus met the fury of His Father’s wrath at sin — an anger so fierce that it led the sinless Son of God to cry out to His Father, “Why have you forsaken me? (Mark 15:34)” On the cross, God poured out the fullness of His hatred of sinners on the One who took our sins upon Himself.

How can God totally dispise (Hate) you yet absolutely love you? The Truth is God cannot absolutly love you, He did not send His Son Christ Jesus to save you from your sin, he died to save you from his wrath, read Reverlations about Gods wrath, how then can he die once and for all? How can all who believe live through One? Human reason cannot comprehend these things, yet faith in Christ Jesus compels us to believe. The Law’s demands were met by the Savior’s deeds. The Law that expressed God’s wrath at all sins and all sinners is swallowed up in the grace of Jesus Christ’s Gospel of forgiveness for all who believe in Him.

Unless we are repentant every day, we can never be reconciled to God, I am not saying that we should have a works based gospel, this is why it takes faith in Christ alone that will save us....

Refs

[1] http://www.eauk.org/about/steve-clifford-biography.cfm

[2] http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/ywam.htm

[3] http://www.lst.ac.uk/newsevent.php?newseventid=51

[4] http://www.pioneer.org.uk/Group/Group.aspx?ID=20481

[5] http://www.firstplumbline.net/html/thebandwithnoname.html

[6] http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/news.cfm/2008/7/8/ACNS4422

[7] http://www.eauk.org/theology/key_papers/upload/Hope08.pdf

[8] http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=69006

[9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_08

[10] http://www.eauk.org/theology/key_papers/upload/Hope08.pdf

[11] http://sfr-21.org/sources/lawoflove.html

[12] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harijan

[13] http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25986&forum=36


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